By Manuel Cuellar.
The arrival of Theodora at the Teatro Real also marks the first time that an opera production in Madrid has had the figure of a privacy coordinator, in this case a coordinator, in charge of ensuring the physical and emotional safety of all those involved in a show that, in London, was sold with serious warnings. The British press reported that they had received an email from the Royal Opera House warning parents that they should think twice before taking their children under 16 to see Katie Mitchell's production of Theodora due to its "explicit presentation of scenes of sexual violence, harassment and exploitation" and "themes of terrorism." The same critics later revealed that it was "not that big a deal."
The intimacy coordinator for this opera, Ita O'Brien, was already part of the creative team for the London premiere, where she had a cast almost identical to the one that will perform in Madrid, with soprano Julia Bullock in the title role, mezzo Joyce DiDonato as Irene and, replacing Orlinsky, who premiered it in London, countertenor Iestyn Davies in the role of Dydymus.
We spoke to O'Brien and this is what he had to say.
The role of the intimacy coordinator is already well-known in film and television, but I think this is the first time I've heard of it in an opera. What was the first opera in which your services were requested?
This one. I arrived at the rehearsals in London in 2021 with the help of Katie Mitchell's assistant director, Dan Ayiling, who is in charge of the revival here in Madrid. The soprano Julia Bullock, who plays the protagonist, was very actively involved in the dramaturgy of this production and the three of them invited me to join the team for this Theodora . I worked with Ayiling on a theatre production of Spring Awakening and he was the real connection with Katie Mitchell. After this opera I worked on a production of Britten's The Rape of Lucretia and on John Adams' Anthony and Cleopatra at the Liceu in Barcelona. And once again with Katie Mitchell, last summer, in the revival of Pelléas et Mélisande in Aix-en-Provence.
What does your job basically consist of?
It's comparable to that of choreographers, movement managers, stunt doubles, fight coordinators in films... My job is to ensure that everything that happens in the play that has to do with sexual relations between characters, nudity or situations of abuse and violence, is carried out on stage in such a way that everyone involved feels safe both physically and psychologically.
And how do you achieve this? What are the most important tools in your work?
It's all very much based on dialogue. It's about listening to the needs of all parties, mainly actors, actresses and directors, in order to reach agreements both to ensure that complicated scenes are absolutely credible and to guarantee that no one will suffer in the process. No one, not even the artistic result. The choreography of movements, as well as a production committed to providing actors and actresses with safe environments, both in rehearsals and in filming or theatre performances.
What awaits us in this 'Theodora', for example, that makes its presence so necessary?
In Theodora we start with a scene of abuse when she is condemned to prostitution for wanting to defend Christians. It is a scene of sexual abuse by the character of Septimus, who is sent to tell her that if she does not join a party in honour of the goddesses by the end of the day, she will be raped by the soldiers. The narrative dictates that Septimus clearly oversteps the mark with Theodora. It must be clear that there is an episode of sexual abuse. My job is to be in favour of the narrative and the director's vision. And for that, a conversation is needed in which the conclusion is reached that nothing that is going to be done on stage is gratuitous. One of the things that helps an actor the most is to know that everything that he is going to do physically on stage has a deep reason in the story that is being told. But there is also a beautiful love story.
Who is easier to convince to give in, an actor or a director?
It's good that you use that word, convince, because that's not what it's about. You have to take that coercive element out of the equation. Because coercion in a professional environment is not appropriate. There has been a long time when, at the cry of 'the show must go on', some of the professionals on the scene have had to nullify themselves in favour of storytelling. But that time is over. Everyone should be able to work without fear of harassment or abuse.
But what if the director has something very clear in mind?
Sometimes there are physical aspects that an actor or actress is not willing to go through. That means that I sometimes have to tell directors that if they insist on a certain image that is not suitable for an actor, what they are going to get is a terrible result. Because no matter how much of an actor they are, what they are going to get is a person who feels uncomfortable, mistreated and horrible. And that can ruin a production. Because we are not always talking about scenes of abuse, there are also scenes of love or consensual sex where the result can be that they convey a feeling of the opposite: of horror or disgust. So part of my job is to find another way to serve the director's vision, another physical approach or another creative way of telling that meets their requirements. And indeed, many times we manage to build a much more powerful image than the director could have originally had in mind. Through appropriate choreography and conversations with all the actors involved, you can arrive at a result that almost explodes in the face of the audience, who will feel it as very real. Very physical.
What is more difficult to 'choreograph' on stage: abuse or love?
Something as simple as a kiss is never just a kiss, for example. Kissing another person, lip to lip, can feel much more intimate than acting out a choreographed simulated sex scene or a rape scene. Because you're really kissing another person. So asking questions is very important. Questions like why? What's happening at this moment in the story that justifies it? What's the power play behind this kiss? Who's kissing whom?
Is there a lot of kissing in 'Theodora'?
In this production of Theodora we are dealing with the protagonist and Dydymus, a Roman centurion who is in love with her and at the same time converting to Christianity. Their relationship brings a softness and love to the whole narrative. Because everything that is happening around them is so difficult and violent, that small, beautiful relationship is so important to the whole play. So from the beginning of the show, Iestyn Davies (Dydymus) and Julia Bullock and I have found an arc of physical encounter that helps the story. He comes on stage and brings her a gift, and all the physical language between them is one of sweetness, beauty and delicacy in a blossoming love story. Dydymus offers his lips to Theodora, who is thinking about other things, and they deliberately don't kiss at the start, which is very beautiful. And we have been very conscious that the only lip-to-lip kiss that happens is when they agree that they are going to get married. So it is very clear and very intentional. And that gentle narrative within a story of two people who have been captured, mistreated and beaten, is a relief to the audience and a much more interesting path.
What are some common misconceptions the public has about an intimacy coordinator?
First of all, it is not true that we come to rehearsals and take control. It is not like that at all. We have the same relationship that a director might have with his choreographer or his movement or fight coordinator. We listen to their demands and their vision. We take everything into account and try to facilitate the connection with other parts of the production, such as the direction or the organization of the rehearsal process. We make sure, for example, that there are closed rehearsal rooms, just with the costume department and the artists.
Another thing that the public thinks is that we are going to be the dunces and the censorship police who are going to come to productions to make things less sexy and less spicy, when many times it is the opposite. When you open up the conversations and listen to those involved, when you are able to choreograph clearly, you can do almost anything you want. Abusive penetration, someone taking off their pants... All of that should be part of a choreography.
Curiously, there are productions in which the same singer has already taken a step back. Take Romeo Castellucci 's Don Giovanni at the Salzburg Festival, for example. In 2021, the baritone Davide Luciano appeared completely naked for a very long aria, covering his body in white paint that could symbolise guilt. However, last summer, in the revival, Luciano himself was already performing in flesh-coloured underwear. What could have happened there?
Let me be clear that I think natural nudity on stage is absolutely fine, as long as the actor or singer, whether male or female, is okay with it. I don't know exactly what happened in that particular production. Maybe it was the festival management itself that decided to take a step back. We don't know. What is clear is that it is absolutely necessary to normalise human nudity on stage or on screen. Whatever it may be. Normative or non-normative bodies. Human beings are beautiful by nature.
How do you deal with, for example, this type of censorship on social media or film ratings regarding female nipples, which are prohibited but not male nipples?
The idea of not being able to show naked nipples is crazy if an actress is happy to have bare breasts, including nipples. If she doesn't want to show them, we often put on a modesty garment or nipple shields. But it seems absolutely crazy to me that it is the industry or any element beyond the will of the actor or actress who says that we cannot see a female nipple on stage. However, regarding social networks we have to warn our actors very clearly. Remind them that, even if they are naked for a millisecond on screen, anyone can take a screenshot and upload it to social networks without their consent. Even if a producer assures them that he will do everything possible to remove that content from the Internet. I always have this conversation with actors, because they have to be absolutely aware that social networks are an uncontrollable universe.
There is a widespread opinion that your job is more complicated with women than with men. What do you think about this?
I’m so glad you asked me this question. I once had a producer say to me, “Oh yeah, you’re here for the girl, aren’t you?” To which I said, “Would you ask the stunt coordinator if he’s here for the hero? Even when male actors say to me, “I’ll be fine as long as she’s fine,” I say, “No, no. Look inside yourself to see if you’re okay with it, too.” When I did my research back in 2014 on this whole issue, I came to the conclusion that often the person playing the abusive part can suffer just as much or more than the person playing the abused part. Actors are often sensitive, creative, compassionate people, and the stance on both sides is very challenging. For example, one of the actors who perpetrates a rape in Theodora was very, very worried about how to do things. He was holding back and was overcome with bad feelings. Until he was able to speak up, to say it freely, and to let go in the first rehearsal. And finally, the scene is very powerful with him showing his ass with his pants down… Even when Theodora manages to get away and he is left looking shocked. It is very interesting.
There are voices on the right who accuse the figure of intimacy coordinators of being a progressive invention (WOKE), that they have never really been needed in the history of Hollywood. That great films have been made without the need for intimacy coordinators. What would you say to these people?
Is it progressive to hire a choreographer? Or a stunt coordinator? Or a crowd control expert…? No. It’s just professional. Baz Luhrman’s Moulin Rouge wouldn’t have been the same if it hadn’t had a wonderful choreographer who also taught Ewan McGregor to dance, for example. These are professional people. A director invites the best professionals to bring his production vision to fruition. Before there were intimacy coordinators, members of a shoot or a theatre production were embarrassed to talk about something so important. Talking in detail about intimate scenes for a director could mean being accused of being a pervert…
And the fact that films have always been made in Hollywood without the need for an intimacy coordinator... I assure you that with all the actors and actresses I have worked with throughout my career, they all always have some story to tell about at least some stressful situations during their work due to not having a professional nearby to deal with their fears and anxieties.
More . . .
The arrival of Theodora at the Teatro Real also marks the first time that an opera production in Madrid has had the figure of a privacy coordinator, in this case a coordinator, in charge of ensuring the physical and emotional safety of all those involved in a show that, in London, was sold with serious warnings. The British press reported that they had received an email from the Royal Opera House warning parents that they should think twice before taking their children under 16 to see Katie Mitchell's production of Theodora due to its "explicit presentation of scenes of sexual violence, harassment and exploitation" and "themes of terrorism." The same critics later revealed that it was "not that big a deal."
The intimacy coordinator for this opera, Ita O'Brien, was already part of the creative team for the London premiere, where she had a cast almost identical to the one that will perform in Madrid, with soprano Julia Bullock in the title role, mezzo Joyce DiDonato as Irene and, replacing Orlinsky, who premiered it in London, countertenor Iestyn Davies in the role of Dydymus.
We spoke to O'Brien and this is what he had to say.
The role of the intimacy coordinator is already well-known in film and television, but I think this is the first time I've heard of it in an opera. What was the first opera in which your services were requested?
This one. I arrived at the rehearsals in London in 2021 with the help of Katie Mitchell's assistant director, Dan Ayiling, who is in charge of the revival here in Madrid. The soprano Julia Bullock, who plays the protagonist, was very actively involved in the dramaturgy of this production and the three of them invited me to join the team for this Theodora . I worked with Ayiling on a theatre production of Spring Awakening and he was the real connection with Katie Mitchell. After this opera I worked on a production of Britten's The Rape of Lucretia and on John Adams' Anthony and Cleopatra at the Liceu in Barcelona. And once again with Katie Mitchell, last summer, in the revival of Pelléas et Mélisande in Aix-en-Provence.
What does your job basically consist of?
It's comparable to that of choreographers, movement managers, stunt doubles, fight coordinators in films... My job is to ensure that everything that happens in the play that has to do with sexual relations between characters, nudity or situations of abuse and violence, is carried out on stage in such a way that everyone involved feels safe both physically and psychologically.
And how do you achieve this? What are the most important tools in your work?
It's all very much based on dialogue. It's about listening to the needs of all parties, mainly actors, actresses and directors, in order to reach agreements both to ensure that complicated scenes are absolutely credible and to guarantee that no one will suffer in the process. No one, not even the artistic result. The choreography of movements, as well as a production committed to providing actors and actresses with safe environments, both in rehearsals and in filming or theatre performances.
What awaits us in this 'Theodora', for example, that makes its presence so necessary?
In Theodora we start with a scene of abuse when she is condemned to prostitution for wanting to defend Christians. It is a scene of sexual abuse by the character of Septimus, who is sent to tell her that if she does not join a party in honour of the goddesses by the end of the day, she will be raped by the soldiers. The narrative dictates that Septimus clearly oversteps the mark with Theodora. It must be clear that there is an episode of sexual abuse. My job is to be in favour of the narrative and the director's vision. And for that, a conversation is needed in which the conclusion is reached that nothing that is going to be done on stage is gratuitous. One of the things that helps an actor the most is to know that everything that he is going to do physically on stage has a deep reason in the story that is being told. But there is also a beautiful love story.
Who is easier to convince to give in, an actor or a director?
It's good that you use that word, convince, because that's not what it's about. You have to take that coercive element out of the equation. Because coercion in a professional environment is not appropriate. There has been a long time when, at the cry of 'the show must go on', some of the professionals on the scene have had to nullify themselves in favour of storytelling. But that time is over. Everyone should be able to work without fear of harassment or abuse.
But what if the director has something very clear in mind?
Sometimes there are physical aspects that an actor or actress is not willing to go through. That means that I sometimes have to tell directors that if they insist on a certain image that is not suitable for an actor, what they are going to get is a terrible result. Because no matter how much of an actor they are, what they are going to get is a person who feels uncomfortable, mistreated and horrible. And that can ruin a production. Because we are not always talking about scenes of abuse, there are also scenes of love or consensual sex where the result can be that they convey a feeling of the opposite: of horror or disgust. So part of my job is to find another way to serve the director's vision, another physical approach or another creative way of telling that meets their requirements. And indeed, many times we manage to build a much more powerful image than the director could have originally had in mind. Through appropriate choreography and conversations with all the actors involved, you can arrive at a result that almost explodes in the face of the audience, who will feel it as very real. Very physical.
What is more difficult to 'choreograph' on stage: abuse or love?
Something as simple as a kiss is never just a kiss, for example. Kissing another person, lip to lip, can feel much more intimate than acting out a choreographed simulated sex scene or a rape scene. Because you're really kissing another person. So asking questions is very important. Questions like why? What's happening at this moment in the story that justifies it? What's the power play behind this kiss? Who's kissing whom?
Is there a lot of kissing in 'Theodora'?
In this production of Theodora we are dealing with the protagonist and Dydymus, a Roman centurion who is in love with her and at the same time converting to Christianity. Their relationship brings a softness and love to the whole narrative. Because everything that is happening around them is so difficult and violent, that small, beautiful relationship is so important to the whole play. So from the beginning of the show, Iestyn Davies (Dydymus) and Julia Bullock and I have found an arc of physical encounter that helps the story. He comes on stage and brings her a gift, and all the physical language between them is one of sweetness, beauty and delicacy in a blossoming love story. Dydymus offers his lips to Theodora, who is thinking about other things, and they deliberately don't kiss at the start, which is very beautiful. And we have been very conscious that the only lip-to-lip kiss that happens is when they agree that they are going to get married. So it is very clear and very intentional. And that gentle narrative within a story of two people who have been captured, mistreated and beaten, is a relief to the audience and a much more interesting path.
What are some common misconceptions the public has about an intimacy coordinator?
First of all, it is not true that we come to rehearsals and take control. It is not like that at all. We have the same relationship that a director might have with his choreographer or his movement or fight coordinator. We listen to their demands and their vision. We take everything into account and try to facilitate the connection with other parts of the production, such as the direction or the organization of the rehearsal process. We make sure, for example, that there are closed rehearsal rooms, just with the costume department and the artists.
Another thing that the public thinks is that we are going to be the dunces and the censorship police who are going to come to productions to make things less sexy and less spicy, when many times it is the opposite. When you open up the conversations and listen to those involved, when you are able to choreograph clearly, you can do almost anything you want. Abusive penetration, someone taking off their pants... All of that should be part of a choreography.
Curiously, there are productions in which the same singer has already taken a step back. Take Romeo Castellucci 's Don Giovanni at the Salzburg Festival, for example. In 2021, the baritone Davide Luciano appeared completely naked for a very long aria, covering his body in white paint that could symbolise guilt. However, last summer, in the revival, Luciano himself was already performing in flesh-coloured underwear. What could have happened there?
Let me be clear that I think natural nudity on stage is absolutely fine, as long as the actor or singer, whether male or female, is okay with it. I don't know exactly what happened in that particular production. Maybe it was the festival management itself that decided to take a step back. We don't know. What is clear is that it is absolutely necessary to normalise human nudity on stage or on screen. Whatever it may be. Normative or non-normative bodies. Human beings are beautiful by nature.
How do you deal with, for example, this type of censorship on social media or film ratings regarding female nipples, which are prohibited but not male nipples?
The idea of not being able to show naked nipples is crazy if an actress is happy to have bare breasts, including nipples. If she doesn't want to show them, we often put on a modesty garment or nipple shields. But it seems absolutely crazy to me that it is the industry or any element beyond the will of the actor or actress who says that we cannot see a female nipple on stage. However, regarding social networks we have to warn our actors very clearly. Remind them that, even if they are naked for a millisecond on screen, anyone can take a screenshot and upload it to social networks without their consent. Even if a producer assures them that he will do everything possible to remove that content from the Internet. I always have this conversation with actors, because they have to be absolutely aware that social networks are an uncontrollable universe.
There is a widespread opinion that your job is more complicated with women than with men. What do you think about this?
I’m so glad you asked me this question. I once had a producer say to me, “Oh yeah, you’re here for the girl, aren’t you?” To which I said, “Would you ask the stunt coordinator if he’s here for the hero? Even when male actors say to me, “I’ll be fine as long as she’s fine,” I say, “No, no. Look inside yourself to see if you’re okay with it, too.” When I did my research back in 2014 on this whole issue, I came to the conclusion that often the person playing the abusive part can suffer just as much or more than the person playing the abused part. Actors are often sensitive, creative, compassionate people, and the stance on both sides is very challenging. For example, one of the actors who perpetrates a rape in Theodora was very, very worried about how to do things. He was holding back and was overcome with bad feelings. Until he was able to speak up, to say it freely, and to let go in the first rehearsal. And finally, the scene is very powerful with him showing his ass with his pants down… Even when Theodora manages to get away and he is left looking shocked. It is very interesting.
There are voices on the right who accuse the figure of intimacy coordinators of being a progressive invention (WOKE), that they have never really been needed in the history of Hollywood. That great films have been made without the need for intimacy coordinators. What would you say to these people?
Is it progressive to hire a choreographer? Or a stunt coordinator? Or a crowd control expert…? No. It’s just professional. Baz Luhrman’s Moulin Rouge wouldn’t have been the same if it hadn’t had a wonderful choreographer who also taught Ewan McGregor to dance, for example. These are professional people. A director invites the best professionals to bring his production vision to fruition. Before there were intimacy coordinators, members of a shoot or a theatre production were embarrassed to talk about something so important. Talking in detail about intimate scenes for a director could mean being accused of being a pervert…
And the fact that films have always been made in Hollywood without the need for an intimacy coordinator... I assure you that with all the actors and actresses I have worked with throughout my career, they all always have some story to tell about at least some stressful situations during their work due to not having a professional nearby to deal with their fears and anxieties.
More . . .
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